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	<title>Comments on: Google kills Second Life copy &#8220;Lively&#8221;; 5 ways user-generated content sucks</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2008/11/20/googles-lively-second-life-copy-killed-off-%e2%80%93-5-reasons-why-user-generated-content-sucks-mostly/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2008/11/20/googles-lively-second-life-copy-killed-off-%e2%80%93-5-reasons-why-user-generated-content-sucks-mostly/</link>
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		<title>By: Simon Munk</title>
		<link>http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2008/11/20/googles-lively-second-life-copy-killed-off-%e2%80%93-5-reasons-why-user-generated-content-sucks-mostly/comment-page-1/#comment-2392</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Munk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 11:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.electricpig.co.uk/?p=9376#comment-2392</guid>
		<description>Dale,

Where I think user-generated content does work brilliantly is in terms of generating stuff that mainstream games companies don&#039;t want to bother making. Whether that&#039;s vampire weddings or giant octopus jetskis. But what I think borders on taking your fans for a ride is when user-generated content is used instead of good in-house generated content. In essence, I didn&#039;t find Maxis&#039; Spore creatures particularly brilliant - and they should have been in that game. There was the sense that they plopped out a few random creatures to get the ball rolling, then expected users to generate better stuff (which they did).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dale,</p>
<p>Where I think user-generated content does work brilliantly is in terms of generating stuff that mainstream games companies don&#8217;t want to bother making. Whether that&#8217;s vampire weddings or giant octopus jetskis. But what I think borders on taking your fans for a ride is when user-generated content is used instead of good in-house generated content. In essence, I didn&#8217;t find Maxis&#8217; Spore creatures particularly brilliant &#8211; and they should have been in that game. There was the sense that they plopped out a few random creatures to get the ball rolling, then expected users to generate better stuff (which they did).</p>
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		<title>By: Dale Innis</title>
		<link>http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2008/11/20/googles-lively-second-life-copy-killed-off-%e2%80%93-5-reasons-why-user-generated-content-sucks-mostly/comment-page-1/#comment-2320</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale Innis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:25:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.electricpig.co.uk/?p=9376#comment-2320</guid>
		<description>I think user-generated content will be very key in virtual worlds, but you&#039;re right in that it really makes sense only when you start thinking beyond games and levels.  

So &quot;it&#039;s not a game level it&#039;s just a jacket&quot; makes perfect sense if the thing you really want is a game level.  But &quot;it&#039;s not a game level it&#039;s just an art gallery / jetski / tropical island / danceclub / university / philosophy discussion / giant octopus / vampire RP game / wedding dress&quot; seems kind of silly once your head is no longer in the &quot;it has to be a game with levels&quot; space.

User-generated content may not be the best way to get new games levels.  But imho it is definitely the best way to get *everything*...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think user-generated content will be very key in virtual worlds, but you&#8217;re right in that it really makes sense only when you start thinking beyond games and levels.  </p>
<p>So &#8220;it&#8217;s not a game level it&#8217;s just a jacket&#8221; makes perfect sense if the thing you really want is a game level.  But &#8220;it&#8217;s not a game level it&#8217;s just an art gallery / jetski / tropical island / danceclub / university / philosophy discussion / giant octopus / vampire RP game / wedding dress&#8221; seems kind of silly once your head is no longer in the &#8220;it has to be a game with levels&#8221; space.</p>
<p>User-generated content may not be the best way to get new games levels.  But imho it is definitely the best way to get *everything*&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Munk</title>
		<link>http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2008/11/20/googles-lively-second-life-copy-killed-off-%e2%80%93-5-reasons-why-user-generated-content-sucks-mostly/comment-page-1/#comment-2300</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Munk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.electricpig.co.uk/?p=9376#comment-2300</guid>
		<description>Sigmund,

I genuinely believe in some game environments and in some ways, generating your own content is part of the enjoyment. But I guess one of the things I feel about UGC is that it&#039;s not &quot;real&quot; creation. The amount of time some of us put into scripting animations in Second Life would be better put into going and writing a book or scripting a game or their own animation series. In other words, something that didn&#039;t just reflect on someone else&#039;s game world.

So yes, all too often, it is just a &quot;chore&quot; - a virtual cubicle job where you&#039;re grafting for &quot;the man&quot;. When actually, all that creative energy and vitality would be better for you and the world spent elsewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sigmund,</p>
<p>I genuinely believe in some game environments and in some ways, generating your own content is part of the enjoyment. But I guess one of the things I feel about UGC is that it&#8217;s not &#8220;real&#8221; creation. The amount of time some of us put into scripting animations in Second Life would be better put into going and writing a book or scripting a game or their own animation series. In other words, something that didn&#8217;t just reflect on someone else&#8217;s game world.</p>
<p>So yes, all too often, it is just a &#8220;chore&#8221; &#8211; a virtual cubicle job where you&#8217;re grafting for &#8220;the man&#8221;. When actually, all that creative energy and vitality would be better for you and the world spent elsewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: James Holland</title>
		<link>http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2008/11/20/googles-lively-second-life-copy-killed-off-%e2%80%93-5-reasons-why-user-generated-content-sucks-mostly/comment-page-1/#comment-2288</link>
		<dc:creator>James Holland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.electricpig.co.uk/?p=9376#comment-2288</guid>
		<description>I agree. On paper UGC sounds great, but in practice it often gets in the way of a good game. I loved the idea of Spore, for instance, but since I couldn&#039;t be bothered to design the intricacies of my species cars and buildings, I whizzed through those parts of the game and quickly got bored. I haven&#039;t played it since those first two days. Once I got to the space stage, the &#039;evolution&#039; bit seemed to have finished, just leaving me to design weirder and wonderfuller space ships, that actually have no bearing on the game! Maybe I&#039;m missing the point, or maybe I&#039;m just not that creative!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree. On paper UGC sounds great, but in practice it often gets in the way of a good game. I loved the idea of Spore, for instance, but since I couldn&#8217;t be bothered to design the intricacies of my species cars and buildings, I whizzed through those parts of the game and quickly got bored. I haven&#8217;t played it since those first two days. Once I got to the space stage, the &#8216;evolution&#8217; bit seemed to have finished, just leaving me to design weirder and wonderfuller space ships, that actually have no bearing on the game! Maybe I&#8217;m missing the point, or maybe I&#8217;m just not that creative!</p>
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		<title>By: Sigmund Leominster</title>
		<link>http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2008/11/20/googles-lively-second-life-copy-killed-off-%e2%80%93-5-reasons-why-user-generated-content-sucks-mostly/comment-page-1/#comment-2287</link>
		<dc:creator>Sigmund Leominster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.electricpig.co.uk/?p=9376#comment-2287</guid>
		<description>In a recent article for SLentrepreneur Magazine (http://tiny.cc/d3ZB1) I outlined four elements of a virtual world that developers need to address in order for that environment to flourish: Communication, Commerce, Construction, and Constitution. Lively is/was not particularly good at allowing for folks to construct items and sell them. There is/was no significant system of exchange where items could be transacted. 

Far from being, as you seem to suggest, a &quot;chore&quot; for people, the potential to create items is critical. Allowing folks to then own those items also ensures that people become vested in their experience. And &quot;creating&quot; includes creating your own character. Winning &quot;points&quot; to enhance your status/gain new weapons/beat the boss is just another form of economic exchange where the &quot;points&quot; act like money.

Just an observation - don&#039;t want to post a 20-page thesis ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a recent article for SLentrepreneur Magazine (<a href="http://tiny.cc/d3ZB1" rel="nofollow">http://tiny.cc/d3ZB1</a>) I outlined four elements of a virtual world that developers need to address in order for that environment to flourish: Communication, Commerce, Construction, and Constitution. Lively is/was not particularly good at allowing for folks to construct items and sell them. There is/was no significant system of exchange where items could be transacted. </p>
<p>Far from being, as you seem to suggest, a &#8220;chore&#8221; for people, the potential to create items is critical. Allowing folks to then own those items also ensures that people become vested in their experience. And &#8220;creating&#8221; includes creating your own character. Winning &#8220;points&#8221; to enhance your status/gain new weapons/beat the boss is just another form of economic exchange where the &#8220;points&#8221; act like money.</p>
<p>Just an observation &#8211; don&#8217;t want to post a 20-page thesis <img src='http://www.electricpig.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Simon Munk</title>
		<link>http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2008/11/20/googles-lively-second-life-copy-killed-off-%e2%80%93-5-reasons-why-user-generated-content-sucks-mostly/comment-page-1/#comment-2275</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Munk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.electricpig.co.uk/?p=9376#comment-2275</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m all for a bit of user-generated smut - and it saddens me that the games industry is so scared of it/anything with a whiff of controversy.

Just let users rate their own content, and each others. So people can sign up to the level of content they feel comfortable with. And have a banhammer for racist, homophobic etc. content. Or should even that stuff be allowed, just clearly marked and rated as such?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m all for a bit of user-generated smut &#8211; and it saddens me that the games industry is so scared of it/anything with a whiff of controversy.</p>
<p>Just let users rate their own content, and each others. So people can sign up to the level of content they feel comfortable with. And have a banhammer for racist, homophobic etc. content. Or should even that stuff be allowed, just clearly marked and rated as such?</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Sillis</title>
		<link>http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2008/11/20/googles-lively-second-life-copy-killed-off-%e2%80%93-5-reasons-why-user-generated-content-sucks-mostly/comment-page-1/#comment-2273</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Sillis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.electricpig.co.uk/?p=9376#comment-2273</guid>
		<description>Anyone who didn&#039;t chuckle at that at least once is a liar, but I&#039;m getting a bit bored of it now. Let&#039;s be a bit more imaginative. How about a sex swing in LittleBigPlanet?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone who didn&#8217;t chuckle at that at least once is a liar, but I&#8217;m getting a bit bored of it now. Let&#8217;s be a bit more imaginative. How about a sex swing in LittleBigPlanet?</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Strachan</title>
		<link>http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2008/11/20/googles-lively-second-life-copy-killed-off-%e2%80%93-5-reasons-why-user-generated-content-sucks-mostly/comment-page-1/#comment-2271</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Strachan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:20:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.electricpig.co.uk/?p=9376#comment-2271</guid>
		<description>&quot;You’ve forgotten point number six: if you open up content to users some WILL create in-game penises.&quot;

I don&#039;t know - the public&#039;s unerring tendency to insert indecent imagery into every single facet of user-generated content, actually reinvigorates my faith in humanity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You’ve forgotten point number six: if you open up content to users some WILL create in-game penises.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know &#8211; the public&#8217;s unerring tendency to insert indecent imagery into every single facet of user-generated content, actually reinvigorates my faith in humanity.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Sillis</title>
		<link>http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2008/11/20/googles-lively-second-life-copy-killed-off-%e2%80%93-5-reasons-why-user-generated-content-sucks-mostly/comment-page-1/#comment-2268</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Sillis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:03:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.electricpig.co.uk/?p=9376#comment-2268</guid>
		<description>You&#039;ve forgotten point number six: if you open up content to users some WILL create in-game penises. It&#039;s inevitable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ve forgotten point number six: if you open up content to users some WILL create in-game penises. It&#8217;s inevitable.</p>
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